[Vilturj] Spirituality and the UPG
Mar. 12th, 2008 07:44 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
moonvoiceThis is just a ramble of my thoughts, nothing too coherent. Feel free to read if you like.
I've been thinking a bit lately about the value of the UPG (unverified personal gnosis). Mostly because it shocked me the first time I realised how much of the pagan community seemed to decry such experiences, and outright attack them even when they came from respected people.
I wasn't raised to believe this way. While I respect and love my heritage, and the wisdom that goes before me comes first; I was always taught to value and respect my own Gnosis with the gods and spirits, because it was this Gnosis that might - when shared - teach others how to better prepare ritual and offer respect towards these gods and spirits. And that in turn, the gods would be better pleased, and we in turn would have a better range and arsenal of knowledge to turn towards. UPG was sometimes gently challenged, but never ever disrespected. At the very least, to spit upon what someone else genuinely believes to be an encounter with a god, is a sad and invalidating act for the person who has done the spitting.
Nothing in Vilturj is verifiable in books. All I can really do is research and sometimes say 'well that was obviously appropriated from Slavic paths, that one Nordic, that one... I have no idea.' So it was a matter of trust and patience to learn what was UPG, what was the ego, and what was my own visualisation teaching me wisdom that is valid for me, but not necessarily relevant to anyone else.
I suppose in more mainstream paths, or paths where there is much written and archaeological evidence to support a view of the gods and their kingdoms... it becomes easier to see what might be the ego. I daresay that if a 13 year old talks about how Morrighan came and put a fluffy blanket around their shoulders, patted them on the head and said soothingly 'everything is going to be alright,' there is definitely grounds for this to be dismissed as a visualisation, or the ego. And of course these sorts of UPG are quite common (on pagan forums at least), so I can sort of see where a trend towards looking down on the UPG as not being as valid as books came from.
But I have a big problem here. Most are no longer raised, even as pagans, to respect their own UPG. That 13 year old had probably never been gently challenged, or even been in an environment where it wouldn't threaten her desire to connect with something greater than herself to hear 'actually, that image is coming from a different place. It is still valid, but it is probably not Morrighan.' We are in a culture that seems to raise people to either dismiss other folks' UPGs, and to intensely question and dismiss their own and treat them with inordinate skepticism. That saddens me.
There are many different types of shamanism out there, but one thing remains true in some forms, which is that the information you get directly from your gods is equally as valuable as the information you receive from your elders and ancestors. And that, should there be no ancestors or elders to teach you, the gods are more than equipped to do this in their stead. There are those who have been Called to practice regardless of heritage, and those who instinctively know shamanic techniques and Otherworldly etiquette after harrowing initiatory experiences. I fear that should they step and claim knowledge of these things, the voices of the mainstream come back with 'what books, what elders, what culture do you claim? How can you make it valid? Why should we trust you? How do we know the gods really spoke to you? They spoke to this pagan here who is book verified and an academic, and that seems more valid to us.'
And that is shameful. I find this a shameful way of treating a person's desire for growth, and in turn, an extremely shameful form of disrespecting the gods and the spirits.
There will always be hollow voices out there, that claim experiences that they've never had. It will trigger our bullshit meters, someone will snark about it, and for what? The satisfaction of trying to shatter someone else's journey?
I think negativity towards the UPG also comes from a fear of wanting to seem right and be accepted. What if you have an actual experience with a well-known god that not only is different to the books, by flies against the nature of that 'god' as you've heard it from everyone else around you? Prepare to be crushed by your pagan 'colleagues,' if that's the case. But it DOES happen. Gods do have their personalities, but they can never be 100% pigeonholed in any category. But this does happen. And these are treated with especial reluctance, because I think nowadays people are less able to reshape and change their idea of what makes up the god/s they worship.
Some of the knowledge on my website of the Vilturj gods and Otherworlds comes not from my elders, but from my own UPG. I have been taught to respect and have faith in that knowledge, because I am not afraid to gently challenge and discard as is necessary (like when I deluded myself into thinking that I was some type of Vanth-Etruscan type Angel. No. I'm not. :) ). My UPG is meaningful, and the only reason I think it doesn't get attacked more often is simply because so many people aren't familiar with the path. But I find myself thinking, should I prepare a disclaimer to let people know this information is sometimes UPG based?
No.
Ultimately it is up to people to decide for themselves whether there is wisdom in what I say and write. A disclaimer? I might as well be ashamed of my own lack of faith in what the Gods, my elders and others have trusted.
In the future, quite a bit more of the information on my website will be entirely UPG based. I will still call it Vilturj, because, hybridised or not - that is what it is. A religion must change and flow and fit itself to new circumstances, and it doesn't always need to take on a new name just to adapt to that. A 'home' now is very different to a 'home' 10,000 years ago. The fundamentals stay the same, but the physical presentation of it is different. Likewise, Vilturj now is different from Vilturj 300 / 400 years ago. But the fundamentals stay the same, even while the faith adapts to try to escape an unfair death.
I don't need to tell you my UPGs are valid, because I know they are. I would ask though, that those of you who chronically doubt your own UPGs because you've been raised in a culture of putting down personal experience; to start getting over it. Really. You hold yourselves and your spiritual growth back. It disrespects the gods who have given you the gift of their knowledge and wisdom, and worse, it may even stop you from sharing this wisdom with others who could use it and grow from it.
This is not a contemporary idea, this is an old one, informed from those religions that valued dreams and visions more than books and footnotes. A UPG is a gift, and it should be treated with respect, imho.
I've been thinking a bit lately about the value of the UPG (unverified personal gnosis). Mostly because it shocked me the first time I realised how much of the pagan community seemed to decry such experiences, and outright attack them even when they came from respected people.
I wasn't raised to believe this way. While I respect and love my heritage, and the wisdom that goes before me comes first; I was always taught to value and respect my own Gnosis with the gods and spirits, because it was this Gnosis that might - when shared - teach others how to better prepare ritual and offer respect towards these gods and spirits. And that in turn, the gods would be better pleased, and we in turn would have a better range and arsenal of knowledge to turn towards. UPG was sometimes gently challenged, but never ever disrespected. At the very least, to spit upon what someone else genuinely believes to be an encounter with a god, is a sad and invalidating act for the person who has done the spitting.
Nothing in Vilturj is verifiable in books. All I can really do is research and sometimes say 'well that was obviously appropriated from Slavic paths, that one Nordic, that one... I have no idea.' So it was a matter of trust and patience to learn what was UPG, what was the ego, and what was my own visualisation teaching me wisdom that is valid for me, but not necessarily relevant to anyone else.
I suppose in more mainstream paths, or paths where there is much written and archaeological evidence to support a view of the gods and their kingdoms... it becomes easier to see what might be the ego. I daresay that if a 13 year old talks about how Morrighan came and put a fluffy blanket around their shoulders, patted them on the head and said soothingly 'everything is going to be alright,' there is definitely grounds for this to be dismissed as a visualisation, or the ego. And of course these sorts of UPG are quite common (on pagan forums at least), so I can sort of see where a trend towards looking down on the UPG as not being as valid as books came from.
But I have a big problem here. Most are no longer raised, even as pagans, to respect their own UPG. That 13 year old had probably never been gently challenged, or even been in an environment where it wouldn't threaten her desire to connect with something greater than herself to hear 'actually, that image is coming from a different place. It is still valid, but it is probably not Morrighan.' We are in a culture that seems to raise people to either dismiss other folks' UPGs, and to intensely question and dismiss their own and treat them with inordinate skepticism. That saddens me.
There are many different types of shamanism out there, but one thing remains true in some forms, which is that the information you get directly from your gods is equally as valuable as the information you receive from your elders and ancestors. And that, should there be no ancestors or elders to teach you, the gods are more than equipped to do this in their stead. There are those who have been Called to practice regardless of heritage, and those who instinctively know shamanic techniques and Otherworldly etiquette after harrowing initiatory experiences. I fear that should they step and claim knowledge of these things, the voices of the mainstream come back with 'what books, what elders, what culture do you claim? How can you make it valid? Why should we trust you? How do we know the gods really spoke to you? They spoke to this pagan here who is book verified and an academic, and that seems more valid to us.'
And that is shameful. I find this a shameful way of treating a person's desire for growth, and in turn, an extremely shameful form of disrespecting the gods and the spirits.
There will always be hollow voices out there, that claim experiences that they've never had. It will trigger our bullshit meters, someone will snark about it, and for what? The satisfaction of trying to shatter someone else's journey?
I think negativity towards the UPG also comes from a fear of wanting to seem right and be accepted. What if you have an actual experience with a well-known god that not only is different to the books, by flies against the nature of that 'god' as you've heard it from everyone else around you? Prepare to be crushed by your pagan 'colleagues,' if that's the case. But it DOES happen. Gods do have their personalities, but they can never be 100% pigeonholed in any category. But this does happen. And these are treated with especial reluctance, because I think nowadays people are less able to reshape and change their idea of what makes up the god/s they worship.
Some of the knowledge on my website of the Vilturj gods and Otherworlds comes not from my elders, but from my own UPG. I have been taught to respect and have faith in that knowledge, because I am not afraid to gently challenge and discard as is necessary (like when I deluded myself into thinking that I was some type of Vanth-Etruscan type Angel. No. I'm not. :) ). My UPG is meaningful, and the only reason I think it doesn't get attacked more often is simply because so many people aren't familiar with the path. But I find myself thinking, should I prepare a disclaimer to let people know this information is sometimes UPG based?
No.
Ultimately it is up to people to decide for themselves whether there is wisdom in what I say and write. A disclaimer? I might as well be ashamed of my own lack of faith in what the Gods, my elders and others have trusted.
In the future, quite a bit more of the information on my website will be entirely UPG based. I will still call it Vilturj, because, hybridised or not - that is what it is. A religion must change and flow and fit itself to new circumstances, and it doesn't always need to take on a new name just to adapt to that. A 'home' now is very different to a 'home' 10,000 years ago. The fundamentals stay the same, but the physical presentation of it is different. Likewise, Vilturj now is different from Vilturj 300 / 400 years ago. But the fundamentals stay the same, even while the faith adapts to try to escape an unfair death.
I don't need to tell you my UPGs are valid, because I know they are. I would ask though, that those of you who chronically doubt your own UPGs because you've been raised in a culture of putting down personal experience; to start getting over it. Really. You hold yourselves and your spiritual growth back. It disrespects the gods who have given you the gift of their knowledge and wisdom, and worse, it may even stop you from sharing this wisdom with others who could use it and grow from it.
This is not a contemporary idea, this is an old one, informed from those religions that valued dreams and visions more than books and footnotes. A UPG is a gift, and it should be treated with respect, imho.
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no subject
Date: 2008-03-12 03:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-03-13 12:06 am (UTC)*nods* It can take time, especially if it is founded on insecurities based in fear of persecution (you mention bullying and snarkage), on top of a fear of not speaking a 'truth.'
My opinion is, is that if it helps you on some fundamental spiritual level to grow (i.e. become more compassionate, more humble, more self and gods-honouring), then it is a 'truth,' no matter what it looked like.
no subject
Date: 2008-03-13 04:39 pm (UTC)I think some of it, too, is how one interprets the UPG and presents the findings to others. If, for instance, I were to decide "Hey, I'm working with the spirits of the same land that the local Natives work/worked with, so I must be a Native American shaman!" I'd probably want someone to call me out on it. OTOH, if I had local spirits contact me and told me to perform a certain ritual to honor them, I wouldn't assume it was the same thing that the Native tribes do/did, even if the spirits told me that they've had people do this ritual beforehand.
Also, I swear your icon just blinked at me.I'm going to quit blathering now.
no subject
Date: 2008-03-14 07:16 am (UTC)And I think it's admirable that you know how you don't want to be - i.e. Lynn Andrews. Take Michael Harner, there is a problematic man, but he also introduced Core Shamanism to the greater public and in many ways, revolutionised the ability of 'mongrels' to practice shamanism. I think, even though I dislike his 'the cultural trappings of shamanism are irrelevant' attitude, I appreciate what he has brought to the world, and on his own too.
You are in a similar position to be able to do the same, to give contemporary folk not just one form of contemporary shamanism, but more than one form, which remains 'traditional' and respectful, but also offers an alternative viewpoint rather than just being Core shamanism rehashed. :)
no subject
Date: 2008-03-14 07:29 pm (UTC)I do hope I can inspire other people with what I'm doing. Not only because it's helped to make me a better person, but also a better "vessel" for shamanizing. There's a lot of work that needs to be done, at least in the U.S., with regards to improving awareness not only of the "spirit world" as a concept, but with the spirits in all things. Animism and shamanism are good tools, even if not all the recipients end up being animists or shaman(ist)s.