Shamanic Pathways 10 - A Gaggle/Murder/Cacophony of Shamans.

[moonvoice]

One of the things that's hard to find in contemporary shamanic practices (especially if you're not a Core shamanist), is a sense of community. Whether that be online, or in person.

Practicing as a shamanist can be a lonely path in general. I mean on the outside looking in, it sounds like a crazy religion. You have a person who talks to spirits and land-wights, who believes in gods and the power of sacred animals, who often works to shepherd dead spirits to their resting places, to heal the soul, to travel to invisible worlds that are more commonly accepted to be fantasy or make-believe, rather than the real places a shaman knows them to be. Being a shamanist often involves not just working with pre-existing spirits and deities, but meeting new ones, and bringing their stories back into the world. It is always about walking a fine line between respecting the past, and being a pioneer at the front of spiritual practice.

And any pioneer, in any walk of life, can be difficult for others to accept.

But I'm not talking about a sense of community outside of shamanism here, I'm talking about a sense of community within shamanism. I have this dream, you see, of being able to sit down with a group of people; either online or off, and discuss the ethics of tricking soul fragments into the body. This example, is just one of the many things I devote a lot of thought to, and wish I had more input on. You see, some of the more ancient shamanic cultures simply tricked, connived or plain trapped soul fragments to force them back into the body. With contemporary psychology - or at least, with my limited understanding of it - being as it is, forcing anything back into the body presents problems. How to reconcile the differences? I'd love to brainstorm with other experienced contemporary shamanists... but... where are they?

I've been a shamanist for about 8-9 years now. I run my website; wildspeak.com, I've been a member of countless forums, both shamanic (including the once excellent, but now very quiet English-speaking Kondor forum) and general pagan. I used to be active in the Western Australian Combined Covens community (where I only ever met one other neo-shamanist, but I'm sure there are others), and I'm not exactly new to the crowd. And I can say that I don't know of any community setting where a group of contemporary non-Core shamanists could talk about the ethical dilemma I raised above. Hey, if you know of any, tell me!

I have people in a one on one setting I can talk to, via email. But no real sense of community with it. Once Google Wave comes out, of course, that will change. Because then email / community will be one and the same, and I'm hoping to see some changes in the way the often-solitary-but-community-driven shaman / shamanist responds to this kind of technology.

The things I'd like to do with groups of contemporary non-Core shamanists is extensive. I'd like to see new or learning shamanists experiment or offer soul retrieval / depossession to other shamans/ists with experience (who require it, by the way, not people who are splitting their soul for 'learning purposes'), so that both can go through the process together, and learn together, and create a bond. I'd like to see ethical discussions about the best soul healing techniques, and like on the old Kondor forum, discussions about the best ways of getting from place to place in the Otherworlds, and the best ways of settling down disgruntled spirits of the dead (which, in the past, has ranged from cupcakes, to tea, to chanting, to talking to them, to bringing touchable, affectionate animal spirits along with you). I'd like a community, or communities that worked to solidify otherworldly UPG, while at the same time; show fearlessness when it comes to bringing new UPG to the table, as is our responsibility as story-tellers and makers.

For now, I'm limited to writing posts like this one, and often resolving these issues by myself. Shamanism is a lonely path, my friends; but it should never be this lonely.

Comments

[lupabitch.livejournal.com]

A large part of the problem is the predominance of core shamanism and the structures that have formed around it. When most people of a spiritual bent hear the term "shaman" in a nonindigenous sense, that's the sort of thing they think of. I think it's a matter of scarcity. I can think of fewer than a dozen non-core, non-indigenous shamans that I know of. The only books I can think of are Raven Kaldera's Northern Tradition material.

Maybe it's just a matter of creating places that are...hmm...maybe no-core zones, as it were? Trying to figure out what makes this unique among the crowd?

And where does the Wildspeak forum fit into all this?

[moonvoice.livejournal.com]

And where does the Wildspeak forum fit into all this?

Wildspeak attracts a lot of people interested in shamanism, just starting out in shamanism, or who are very experienced energy workers / magical practicioners, who are still in many ways just starting out in shamanism. And that's fantastic, and I will keep it for that reason. Hopefully many of the members can grow together in that sense.

But I can only think of two or three members there who have ever conducted anything resembling soul retrieval / depossession / psychopomping more than once, and about the same for those who have done it for others, or clients. One isn't active, because she lives in a rural area with a limited net connection.

I think I might x-post this to the_animist too.

[moonstruckangel.livejournal.com]

I can relate to feeling lonely. For the past 6 years I've had strong lucid dreams and this past year I started encountering people in my dreams that seemed out of place and not connected to my dreams at all and they approach me, one argued with me! The more years that pass the stronger my dreams become,the more people I meet and the more "independent" they become.
I know there are a lot of people out there that have lucid dreams and it's not really "special" but I think my dreams have something much more significant than just being "lucid". I don't know how to explain it but often I truly believe that my dreams aren't just dreams and that it's all a part of reality or something.

Anyway,I've never been able to meet a single person that understands me when it comes to my dreams and I know how lonely it feels to not have someone truly understand me and experience the same thing I experience and someone to just talk to.

[moonvoice.livejournal.com]

I don't know how to explain it but often I truly believe that my dreams aren't just dreams and that it's all a part of reality or something.

Yeah, it sounds a lot like astral projection, or this-realm-journeying (which needs a better term, lol). Have you thought about looking into the astral projecting avenue?

There are a few websites and forums that deal specifically with people who meet each other in lucid dreams, and so on, astrally; and often try and coordinate efforts to meet each other.

I haven't been a member of one for a good long time, but they've been around for years.

[nachtrabe.livejournal.com]

This is something I have been reflecting on with my Teacher a lot over the past year. There just aren't that many people out there doing the work that are talking, and the resources for such are fairly scarce.

No specific thoughts at this point, way too tired, but I need to chew on this some more.

[moonvoice.livejournal.com]

There just aren't that many people out there doing the work that are talking, and the resources for such are fairly scarce.

There aren't that many people talking. Thankfully there are a few though, and more now than there was about 10 years ago, when the only shamanism people knew about, pretty much, was Core and Indigenous shamanism.

[copperbeech.livejournal.com]

I know of no such place, physically or digitally. There was one in Madison, WI for years but it fell apart under leadership duress. It was an intentional shamanic community. I have hopes such could manifest again.

[moonvoice.livejournal.com]

It was an intentional shamanic community. I have hopes such could manifest again.

Me too. Though being in Australia, I'd prefer something with an online mirror, as the only other non-Core shamanist I've met in WA was a Tibetan Bon reconstructionist, and doesn't actually do any soul work / psychopomping at all.

[rainsingingwolf.livejournal.com]

By and large, I think that the biggest problem is that most shamanists want to become a shaman for a community, but that kind of thing is not readily available. So when they can't find people to help, they stop.

And then you have people like me. It's not that I don't practice any more; it's just that I'm very hesitant to share a lot of my experiences. I'll post every once in a while when the experience isn't so personal. There are a lot of questions people post on forums or communities that I have experience with, but I'm not comfortable in sharing my own personal experience.

[lupabitch.livejournal.com]

That's where I'm stuck right now, because for the most part I need to wait for people to find me, not the other way around. So I'm trying different tactics to at least get the word out that I'm available. Hmm--maybe a personals ad:

"Married but poly white shaman, 31, N/S, N/D, likes hiking, animals, and talking to dead stuff. ISO diverse clientele, with an emphasis on getting back to nature. Must like cats."

[moonvoice.livejournal.com]

And then you have people like me. It's not that I don't practice any more; it's just that I'm very hesitant to share a lot of my experiences.

I'm sorry to hear that. Is it because the energies / spirits / beings around you don't want you to share? Or because of internal problems with what sort of feedback you'll get in the process?

[opalblack.livejournal.com]

Well, sticking my oar in during radio again, I think that such a community is difficult to build and sustain because so many contemporary western/white shamans are near-militant individualists.
I specify here because I think it is a culturally/racially specific phenomenon. We live in a fiercely individualist meta-culture, it's hard as hell to overcome that aspect of our identities. Even people who have been working shamanic paths intensely for a very long time from such beginnings don't always see this as something to be blunted.

As to whether or not it is something to be blunted, that's another conversation entirely.

Once you start getting off the map, it's hard to get individualists to agree on directions. It's hard even to get them to agree that they don't have to agree on directions. With that basis, there's no amount of respectful communication that can stave off personality clashes forever.

[lupabitch.livejournal.com]

Oh, hell yes, that's a big factor. It;s hard to take something developed in communal, small-group settings and apply it to cultures made of millions of people in countless locations, all of whom are socialized to one degree or another in individualism.

[moonvoice.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm absolutely not looking to create an overall governing body or anything, like some people were looking to do for Wicca a while ago.

I'm not interested in homogenising contemporary non-Core shamanism in the slightest; and I think there's a big difference between networking and getting people to find a common ground with some things, and creating a body that excludes contemporary shamanists because they only believe in one soul or something.

Even people who have been working shamanic paths intensely for a very long time from such beginnings don't always see this as something to be blunted.

I don't think that fierce individualism = no community spirit, personally.

[nwallopan.livejournal.com]

other than pagan i'm not really sure what to call my paths. i think to some extent i don't call it anything and it's supposed to be intentionally nameless. it's similar to shamanism because of all the animal spirits, animals and other spirit entities i learn from, am guided and guarded by and otherwise commune with pretty much all the time on some level. it's similar to witchcraft because of all the ancient mental associations and symbols i use to make changes in my environment without a lot of in depth knowledge of their history much of the time. it's similar to wicca because of my need to project sometimes and place my energy or power in representative thought forms or "Gods." and i'm connected with eastern philosophy as well.

but i try not to forsake the the humbler aspects of myself by losing contact with people or just the humbler aspects of who i am. i'm particular, i get ornery sometimes and my shit stinks... and i need to be loved and stay connected with people regardless. i have thought that a site like witchvox for those of us who are more markedly into animal and plant spirits might be useful. on some level i think it would be silly for me to think i could learn much about my spirituality from people... when it's always come from spirits and dreams. so on some level i don't really understand learning the craft or shamanism by degrees or in some sort of method from another person. people don't teach these paths... the spirits do. but at the same time, i do feel a need for fellowship.

[moonvoice.livejournal.com]

people don't teach these paths... the spirits do. but at the same time, i do feel a need for fellowship.

I hear ya. :)

[eaight.livejournal.com]

I'd like to join such a group, but I'd be lurking around obsorbign things and asking dumb questions

Tricking soul fragments seems highly impractical to me, but then I've never messed with anything like a sould retrieval. Closest thing I've come to anything like that is discovering that one can bring back one's old bits by doing things one used to do as a kid (coloring, singing, watching a certain cartoon, playing with legos). This might not be true for everyone. I'd never try doing anything like sould retrieval. I have no business doing that. Anyway, seems to me that a piece that was tricked back into the body will not always intigrate and may leave the first chance it gets.

Fragmenting voluntarily... Well, hey, I don't mind the idea, but then, I'm a libertine when it comes to this sort of thing. Having said that, I really ought not be fragmenting at this point. I should be intigrating.

I enjoy your posts. Neoshamanism will probably be something I end up studying...

[makhsihed.livejournal.com]

From a psychological point of view, I'd say that tricking soul fragments into returning isn't impractical at all. :)

I've joked, sometimes, that doing any form of therapy requires an ability to manipulate people into getting better.

Mental health is really, really complex. Your mind is exceedingly complex. Cognitive dissonance is common: you want two conflicting things at the same time. Someone who self-harms on the one hand doesn't want to stop self-harming, because it works, it alleviates some psychological pain/distress--and on the other hand they want to stop because it's maladaptive and they know it hurts them in the long run. How to quit? It often involves tricking your subconscious, satisfying or misleading that part of you that wants to self-harm until you've developed alternative coping skills to a solid enough level that they're effective.

Figuring out what motivates a person or a part and then using that to get them to behave in healthier ways is part of therapy. Someone wants attention, so they cause a crisis or engage in various negative attention seeking methods that are maladaptive and even dangerous. They're used to that getting them attention, and they don't always even realize that's what they're doing, so they continue the pattern over and over. The therapeutic team's job is to show them that they can get attention in positive ways. Pointing out what they're doing and what would be healthier only gets you so far; the behavioral pattern is ingrained and hard to break just because you consciously know what the problem is.

So behavioral therapy enters into it (you know, Pavlov's dogs and the like?). You give the person lots of attention when they're asking for it appropriately and showing healthier behaviors. You give them absolute minimum attention (only enough to keep them safe, if you're in a residential/in-patient setting) when they're engaging in the negative behaviors. Over time, the negative behaviors decrease and the desired behaviors increase. (Sometimes this happens really rapidly, but usually it takes a controlled setting like residential treatment.)

It's rather analogous to tricking soul fragments, I think. Psychology's like that all the time. Shamanism has a lot in common with psychology; it's dealing with the spiritual and mental health, whereas psychology tends to focus on the mental health only. But the two are strongly linked--mental and spiritual health--so why shouldn't the methods to treat them be similar?

[shistavanenjedi.livejournal.com]

I don't practice shamanism at all, though when I first started getting into paganism I did consider it because I've always been interested in animals and nature. I think what stopped me going down that path was that Asatru or Druidry seemed to be more natural to me. I understand the feeling of loniness because I experience it a lot too. I'm interested in Asatru and I've yet to find an active community (on-line or in real-life) that I'd think I'd fit into. Part of the reason for this is that I've not found a local community which does it, most of the on-line communities tend to be in America, some in Canada and although I have found a group in the UK which I think I might be interested in, it turns out to be one of the Folkish groups and although I do agree with some of their veiws on things, I don't on others and until I've resolved that issue in myself, I don't feel right about approaching them. The other thing is that I don't want to join a group (any pagan group) which just focuses on stuff like astrology and tarot reading and any other stuff which can be considered "New Age." It is difficult. With druidry, I'm careful about its association with Wicca, as Wicca can be focused too much on feminism and other stuff which surround it. From what I've read about the stuff you do, it's more complex the more you delve into it and perhaps that puts people off as there's more to it than just choosing an animal totem/guide.

[white9-fox.livejournal.com]

Everything's more complex the more you delve into it :) That's what makes the world so amazing and interesting.

[moonvoice.livejournal.com]

From what I've read about the stuff you do, it's more complex the more you delve into it and perhaps that puts people off as there's more to it than just choosing an animal totem/guide.

Everything is like this. It's just that my onion (belief system) might be different to your onion (belief system).

Man, I think that was the lamest analogy ever. Lol.

[kiraras-lemon.livejournal.com]

Shamanism, I've not heard of this before, and I can tell you right now that my interest is piqued.
I've always had a very strong affinity for animals and nature, and the elements, but never really had any guidance on how to properly connect with it.
I may be barking up the wrong tree, but, I'm interested in this, do you have any advice or pointers, anything I can do to find out if this is a path I want to try and head down?

[moonvoice.livejournal.com]

http://www.wildspeak.com (my website), maybe check out some of the articles there. If you go straight to the site map, there's stuff on shamanism.

But otherwise, Wikipedia has an okay article on Indigenous shamanism in general. :)

Interesting idea...

[swallow-9.livejournal.com]

I'm one of those people that has been doing the non-Core, non-indigenous practice for many years and not talking much. I hate to put labels on what I do, there are more "it's not(blank)" than there are "it's(blank)" But I would be interested in some sort of larger network of relationships with people doing similar work.

Re: Interesting idea...

[moonvoice.livejournal.com]

But I would be interested in some sort of larger network of relationships with people doing similar work.

Me too. I don't necessarily need a new term either. I mean I practice under the banner of Wildspeak. Lupa under the banner of Therioshamanism, and so on. A term like 'neo-shaman' is probably adequate if it could be reclaimed and enough non-Core shamanists used it anyway. Just like Wicca no longer means 'Alexandrian' or 'Gardnerian' Wicca (to the chagrin of many A and G Wiccans, lol).