moonvoice: (calm - blue shoreline)moonvoice ([personal profile] moonvoice) wrote,
@ 2009-10-31 03:31 pm UTC
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Entry tags:filter - none, ws - forums, ws - otherworlds, ws - shamanism, ws - wildspeak
One of the things that's hard to find in contemporary shamanic practices (especially if you're not a Core shamanist), is a sense of community. Whether that be online, or in person.

Practicing as a shamanist can be a lonely path in general. I mean on the outside looking in, it sounds like a crazy religion. You have a person who talks to spirits and land-wights, who believes in gods and the power of sacred animals, who often works to shepherd dead spirits to their resting places, to heal the soul, to travel to invisible worlds that are more commonly accepted to be fantasy or make-believe, rather than the real places a shaman knows them to be. Being a shamanist often involves not just working with pre-existing spirits and deities, but meeting new ones, and bringing their stories back into the world. It is always about walking a fine line between respecting the past, and being a pioneer at the front of spiritual practice.

And any pioneer, in any walk of life, can be difficult for others to accept.

But I'm not talking about a sense of community outside of shamanism here, I'm talking about a sense of community within shamanism. I have this dream, you see, of being able to sit down with a group of people; either online or off, and discuss the ethics of tricking soul fragments into the body. This example, is just one of the many things I devote a lot of thought to, and wish I had more input on. You see, some of the more ancient shamanic cultures simply tricked, connived or plain trapped soul fragments to force them back into the body. With contemporary psychology - or at least, with my limited understanding of it - being as it is, forcing anything back into the body presents problems. How to reconcile the differences? I'd love to brainstorm with other experienced contemporary shamanists... but... where are they?

I've been a shamanist for about 8-9 years now. I run my website; wildspeak.com, I've been a member of countless forums, both shamanic (including the once excellent, but now very quiet English-speaking Kondor forum) and general pagan. I used to be active in the Western Australian Combined Covens community (where I only ever met one other neo-shamanist, but I'm sure there are others), and I'm not exactly new to the crowd. And I can say that I don't know of any community setting where a group of contemporary non-Core shamanists could talk about the ethical dilemma I raised above. Hey, if you know of any, tell me!

I have people in a one on one setting I can talk to, via email. But no real sense of community with it. Once Google Wave comes out, of course, that will change. Because then email / community will be one and the same, and I'm hoping to see some changes in the way the often-solitary-but-community-driven shaman / shamanist responds to this kind of technology.

The things I'd like to do with groups of contemporary non-Core shamanists is extensive. I'd like to see new or learning shamanists experiment or offer soul retrieval / depossession to other shamans/ists with experience (who require it, by the way, not people who are splitting their soul for 'learning purposes'), so that both can go through the process together, and learn together, and create a bond. I'd like to see ethical discussions about the best soul healing techniques, and like on the old Kondor forum, discussions about the best ways of getting from place to place in the Otherworlds, and the best ways of settling down disgruntled spirits of the dead (which, in the past, has ranged from cupcakes, to tea, to chanting, to talking to them, to bringing touchable, affectionate animal spirits along with you). I'd like a community, or communities that worked to solidify otherworldly UPG, while at the same time; show fearlessness when it comes to bringing new UPG to the table, as is our responsibility as story-tellers and makers.

For now, I'm limited to writing posts like this one, and often resolving these issues by myself. Shamanism is a lonely path, my friends; but it should never be this lonely.


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[identity profile] moonvoice.livejournal.com
2009-10-31 11:27 pm UTC (link)
This is precisely why I think it would be great to have a system where less experienced shamanists were able to perform soul work for more experienced shamanists (and also, vice versa, so that a less experienced shamanist can see what it's like being guided through the process by someone else, in person, or as a distance healing). It gives invaluable experience, and would also get word of mouth around.

Many shamans (that I've met) like knowing that they have someone else to refer a client to if they're full up/unable to help; and sometimes they're in positions where they don't know or trust anyone else to refer to.

If they'd had mutual soul-work experiences with others, of the same, higher, or less experience - even if the belief systems themselves sometimes differed - there would be a greater sense of community, and a higher profile given to soul healing, and a better ability to treat the clients by saying things like 'well, I don't have the focus on ancestors that you seem to require, but X and X do, and here are their contact details'.

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[identity profile] skitty-kitty.livejournal.com
2009-11-01 06:11 am UTC (link)
I would kill for something like this. ;) As it is, I'm extremely grateful for LJ and people like you and Lupa who are around to help with your insights and experiences. I'm always grateful for what you guys share!

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[identity profile] lupabitch.livejournal.com
2009-11-04 11:33 am UTC (link)
I like all of this very much. I'm currently in a situation which I'm going to be emailing you about shortly, and it;d be cool to have the same sort of consultant base that I'm building as a therapist-to-be.

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[identity profile] moonvoice.livejournal.com
2009-11-04 01:15 pm UTC (link)
Replied! :)

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[identity profile] makhsihed.livejournal.com
2009-11-04 05:40 pm UTC (link)
I think modern shamanism could benefit from looking at how the psychology field runs things.

In many states of the US, at least, to get your license (and I think to keep it, too), you have to see another therapist on a regular basis. For getting your license, this gives you the experience of being in therapy so you can experience it from both sides. For keeping your license, it gives you some preventative maintenance because the field is so emotionally/psychologically trying.

Having the ability to have other professionals to refer people to and to consult on difficult cases is also incredibly valuable, as you've covered in the last two paragraphs.

Plus a code of ethics similar to either the APA code of ethics (http://www.apa.org/ETHICS/code.html), the ACA code (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CA0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.counseling.org%2FFiles%2FFD.ashx%3Fguid%3Dab7c1272-71c4-46cf-848c-f98489937dda&ei=jLrxSr25DpGe8AaG_7iKCQ&usg=AFQjCNHgd-uz3MBgv6fACQEz26gUv3LXzQ&sig2=hvs4RfW9EK_2AXHXbMeEyg), or the AAPC (http://aapc.org/content/ethics)'s would probably be exceedingly useful and appropriate.

(Though an ethics code for shamans might look pretty interesting, since it might not just concern ethical boundaries with and treatment of clients, but also ethical considerations in the otherworlds and with spirits, I'd imagine!)

The other benefit of the psychology field is that you frequently have an entire treatment team with any one client. Or at least, that's the ideal. There's the psychiatrist who prescribes medication, there's the therapist, and depending on the situation, there may be more people involved as well. The optimal approach is when the entire team is in communication about the client; someone may see something that someone else missed, or have a good idea for treatment that someone else on the team wouldn't've thought of on their own. A wider support base is always best.

I think a spirit-worker of some sort would be a valuable addition to any therapeutic team. Or at least a spiritual counselor of the client's particular faith. Unfortunately, not a lot of therapists are open to working closely with such, and it would require working out some legal/consent tangles with the client regarding confidentiality.

*/babble*

This is the sort of stuff that [livejournal.com profile] nachtrabe and I discuss all the time. ^^' Intersections of shamanism and psychology, what each side can learn from the other, etc...

I think some sort of community--even just a way to network--would be awesome. It sounds like the interest is there, but the mechanism/organization is not. Not yet, anyway.

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[identity profile] moonvoice.livejournal.com
2009-11-04 11:17 pm UTC (link)
I don't think a universal, neoshamanic ethics code would work personally, and I think it threatens to homogenise something that is highly individual. We have Harner/Core for that.

I mean, I for example support conducting soul retrievals on people without their knowledge, and without their permission, if my spirits and their spirits tell me to, and I can see that they might be right. There aren't many forms of energy work where that's permitted, but in shamanism, it has been for a long time.

And then of course, there's the fact that there's dark shamanism (and let's not even go into places where things like Kanaima were accepted on a community level). Core shamanism might not look at that square on, but shamanic soul work is an affective way to tear someone apart, as well as put them back together again.

It was considered, particularly in some Indigenous Russian and Mongolian cultures, not only appropriate, but ethically necessary to know how to destroy someone in order to protect a community. To even bring death about, if necessary. I can see people coming from one side of ethics go 'oh god no, we can't have that,' and others going 'but it's part of our culture and who we are, you can't rule it out.'

Anyway, even with the code of ethics in psychology, it means nothing if the therapist doesn't have a good supervisor, good training, and a good personal code. The lines can get veeeeery blurry without that wider support base, which is what I absolutely think shamanism needs.

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[identity profile] makhsihed.livejournal.com
2009-11-04 11:39 pm UTC (link)
Mm, good points.

What about guidelines on practitioner-to-client/client-to-practitioner boundaries? That's one that doesn't get discussed often enough in Pagan-y pastoral counseling/teaching. I don't know about the shamanism end of things, though I'm sure the lack of community makes it difficult.

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[identity profile] moonvoice.livejournal.com
2009-11-04 11:45 pm UTC (link)
What about guidelines on practitioner-to-client/client-to-practitioner boundaries?

This is difficult too. In psychology, it's often considered a bad thing to be a healer to someone who is a close friend, a lover, or even a relative; and it's considered healthier for both the healer and the client to refer them onto other healers.

In shamanism, it was considered a benefit and asset to be close friends to those in your community (at least, in some communities anyway), to be their relatives, their confidante, and so on; referring them onto another community healer would be considered folly and stupidity.

On the other hand, I can't recall of any shamanic community where it was considered okay to have sexual congress with any client during a healing. Heh, so I suppose there'd be some things in there which people might be able to to agree on.

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